Seminal retention

[Rafael]

Hi.

My name is Rafael from israel and i'm new to the forum.
For a long time i'm trying to learn and understand the idea of seminal retention which i've encountered so many times in Taoism which briefly states that sexual energy contained in semen can be channeled and used for healing and strengthening physical and mental functions and that ejaculation wether by sexual intercourse or masturbation merely depletes the body energy reserves which could be used for better aims...

I've been trying to investigate the practical aspects of this by reading books and watching dvds authored mainly by mantak chia and i also tried to practice from a book named"100 days to better health, good sex & long life" by eric yudelove. For some reason i could not bring my self to the experience whereby the sexual energy brought about by sexual desire is transformed or channeled inward rather than outward in ejacualtion.

I was wondering what is Dr. Yang opinion on that subject including the practical aspects of seminal retention and usage.

Also i was wondering if any of you doing such practices as the microcosmic orbit (or small orbit as it is called here) experiences decrease in sexual desire and is able to use it for higher purposes(I hope it is not too personal a question, but if it is, my sincere apologies..)

I hope you could help me understand this better...
Thanks
Rafael

[joeblast]

Check out www.alchemicaltaoism.com , there's some good points on it there.

[Rafael]

Thanks joeblast. I found some very important points in the "healing love" section.
I guess my main lessons are patience and the ability to stay tuned to my body and life in general so as not to do things which will disrupt their harmony.

Thanks again
Rafael

[clairvoyager]

Thanks for the link joeblast.

Rafael, I suppose that you were looking for the enlightening, reassuring answer to your questions. Instead, I'll give a somewhat discouraging view. I apologize in advance

As far as I know, Dr. Yang does not cover in his work anything about ejaculation control. I attended one seminar where he was asked about the subject and he replied "ask Mantak Chia" I don't know for sure about his views on the subject but some qigong masters believe that it is not wise to go against the autonomous nervous system, overriding its normal behaviour (such as preventing ejaculation). There are stories about people ruining their sexual lifes, even their overall health with such kind of techniques. I am not saying they do not work, but good tuition is a must, and of course good tuition in those subjects is not easy to obtain, besides, some people willing to try this stuff would feel more comfortable reading and practicing on their own.

The question is: is ejaculation the source of energy loss? There is an interesting discussion about the role of sperm in "storing jing" related to people that have undergone vasectomy here: http://www.ymaa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1480

I once talked to a sexologist, and he told me that the amount of calories you loose in the seminal fluid can be replaced many times with a simple meal. It seems the energy is not so much in the fluid, in the sperm itself. Yet it is commonly accepted that sex weakens the male, that is why most sports coaches would prohibit their players from having sex before a match, and so on. However, as far as I know, modern science does not have a good explanation for it. It must be that you loose energy in another way, probably through the orgams response. If you could suppress or reabsorb the release of energy in the orgasm, then I don't think it would matter much to ejaculate (loose the seminal fluid). Of course, not many people would find sex so satisfying if you would suppress the orgasm. Any views on this?

My opinion is that ejaculation control to avoid qi loss is overrated. There are so many things going on in our lifes that deplete our qi, that ejaculation is just one of them. The fact is that poor diet, stressful life, big emotional changes,... all that depletes your energy, it is just that maybe the ancient taoist did not warn against them so much.

There are qigong practitioners that say that if you cultivate your qi, then you will have more energy for your daily life, including sex. It is only natural that if you have more energy, you will feel more willing to engage in sexual activity. I think the matter is to go with one's strengths and do not overdo if feeling weak, but of course, this may not be easy.

[joeblast]

From a qigong perspective, it really depends what your current training is. For most lay practitioners, regular ejaculatory sex isnt that much of a problem. However, if you're doing advanced yi jin jing or intensive neigong practices, at times celibacy is an absolute must if you are to make progress.

Energetically speaking, its not only the fluid; its the body's 'energy capital' required to make such refined fluid, and also, there is a large surge in endorphins when an orgasm occurs. Modern science's understanding of this is in its toddler years, imho. It cant come close to explaining why it uses a ton of qi in your legs.

Chia's methods can be done safely, however, there have been a lot of people that have hurt themselves with his methods. If you decide to undertake those methods, you must practice carefully, pay particular attention to your levels of sensitivity, and do not rush or force things. In fact, if you're learning it from a book, dont even read the later chapters until you have gained some mastery (using the term loosely) of prerequisite methods.

From what I understand, you need to do you foundational work by training unaroused jing before you can work with aroused jing. You can have non ejaculatory sex and stay away from the point of no return, do exercises that sublimate sexual energy afterwards. I know I have seen plenty of benefit in practice after that - but that is still considered working with aroused jing and it requires a firm Yi to stay away from where you didnt want to go before you began Chia's testicle breathing is a good starting point imho to begin working with unaroused jing. As far as aroused jing and after non ejaculatory sex, I've found that the kunlun practice I do makes good use of that energy.

[Dvivid]

http://www.ymaa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=413&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[joeblast]

Good link, D...thanks!

[lilman]

My personal experience, which Im just putting here as a reference, not suggesting anyone try it unless their comfortable doing so. I read a book called "the way of health sex and longevity". The book has a LOT of information on Daoist beliefs and practice.

It mentions a similar technique, and after reading it and practise, this method worked best for me, just as you reach the point of no return, stop thrusting, and curve your spine slightly, as if curling up in the fetal position, and clench your teeth (which leads Qi to the head) and take deep inhales as you try to lead the Qi to your head with a strongly concentrated and condenced breathe. as you exhale, keep your yi at your head, after about 4 breathes I loose the urge to finish but Im still hard and ready to continue... And whats strange, with this method I was able to go 8 and 1/2 hours and STILL had the urge to continue, but she was exhausted, and the fact I didnt physically ejaculate, I still had the feeling of orgasm everytime, and my energy was trippled that day despite no sleep... I would suggest before you try this with someone you love or with a partner, or whatever, you may want to practice with masturbation. The excitement of being with a partner, especially a beautiful one, may overwhelm you and that will be it. Or practice with someone your not really physically attracted to... You should get a feeling of orgasm without the loss of semen, and if you feel stagnant Qi or semen in your Lower Dan Tian, Counter clockwise firm circular massage in that region always helped me. Then you want to make sure, if its a loved one, their ok with you practicing with them. My current girl doesnt like to go that long and prefers me to finish so I do not pracice with her.

Another point I would like to add, where if you are not sure that semen retention will help your practice, try this, when having sex, make him/her finish, and do not finish yourself. just get up and go on about your daily lives. You'll notice a dramatic increase in energy in one way or another. And Im sure you noticed the dramatic decrease in the energy in the legs when you do finish. Then if you pracice this method, you still get the feeling of orgasm, with NONE of the energy loss. Of course, practicing this all the time is not fair to your partner. Sometimes you should give, instead of just recieving.

[Rafael]

Hi lilman
Thank you for sharing...
Rafael

[joeblast]

Supposedly there's ways to accomplish the same thing but in a non-forceful manner. www.multiples.com Sean at taobums was supposed to have some sort of interview with Jack from multiples but I dont know when he'll get around to finishing up the article/interview. I'll post a link when I see it come up if any of you are interested.