confused...

[lilman]

I have been studying Tai Chi Chuan and Qigong by myself for about 4 years learning from books (mostly Dr. Yang's) and about 4 months with a teacher, and am no where near my current potential with chi development. Mostly because of my confusion with how to do some of the qigong. The questions I have relate to wuchi and chi in general. Hopefully someone can help me out cuz my teacher will not answer these questions for me.

1. When practicing wuchi, Dr. Yangs books ussually suggest using either Daoist or Buddhist breathing techniques with coordination from the hui yin, I met a Daoist practitioner that told me when you practice wuchi you sit and do nothing, no breathing techniques, just breathe naturally. No coordination of your huiyin is necessary. Whats the correct method, if there is any?

2. And when practicing wuchi, if you feel rocking sensations from your dantian out to the rest of your body, and a slight warmth in your dantian, but not the boiling heat most books suggest, does that mean your close to the goal and almost ready for small circulation?

3. If your practice wuchi to build up chi, if you practice moving qigong or jin training before you have a full reserve and start circulating small circulation, are you waisting your time with wuchi? Can they really help each other if jin passes chi out of your body as well as with some qigong exercises? The reason I ask is some books say after qigong wait 20 to 30 minutes before going to the bathroom, or eating so chi can enter small circulation...

4. And just cuz Im curious if anyone knows, when practicing spiritual daoist qigong, is it dangerous to have OBEs (out of body experiences) before you cultivate the spiritual embryo?

It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help me with these questions.

[joeblast]

all as I understand, imho...

1) light huiyin coordination 'primes the pump' and engages energetic flow more auspiciously. once you've made that a habit, you dont even need to use the Yi to make it happen.

2) ready? what know you of ready? there's different schools of thought on that. Dr Yang teaches building up qi first, Winn, Chia say to circulate as soon as you feel qi, and the kunlun that I do doesnt even bother actively using the fire path; at a certain point in it, you can feel fire and wind paths circulate simultaneously and the training is overall water method.

3) you're never wasting your time with wuchi. afaik, too much jin training will just deplete qi you have built up. closedown exercises are important to store the extra qi in the lower dantien.

4) there's an amount you can handle ok with your level of training. there's always such a thing as too much...

[lilman]

thank you for your reply. That clears some things up for me. So if I understand correctly, as long as I can feel chi its safe to practice circulation, And the huiyin isnt necessary for wuchi but it activates the pump for circulation, and its safe to practice moving qigong and jin just not in access and should be followed by qigong closing exercises to build back up qi reserves?...

[joeblast]

as long as I can feel chi its safe to practice circulation

There's some gray area there. Its not automatically safe to practice fire path. What have you read and learned so far?

and its safe to practice moving qigong and jin just not in access and should be followed by qigong closing exercises to build back up qi reserves?...

Moving qigong and jin shouldnt be logically lumped into one bucket here. You shouldnt do anything to excess, but it is up to each one of us to know ourselves well enough to know where those boundaries are. 100% is the point at which something breaks - BK Frantzis had a good suggestion in Opening the Energy Gates in doing things to 70% of your capacity to avoid injuries. Just keep in mind that different boldily systems will reach 100% capacity at different times. I like Chia's opening direction on building sensitivity, it will help you in your practice. Even something extremely basic like the inner smile will help build physical sensitivity - start building good physical sensitivity and energtic sensitivity will naturally follow!
Moving qigong like 8 brocades or Taijiquan are things you can do every day. I wouldnt suggest Jin exercises every day - though I'm not well versed enough in Jin training to wage a gander at how much would be appropriate.
Closing exercises are important with any of these exercises, be it moving qigong or meditation. I've heard that at an advanced level, one can also store qi on the bone, but I'm not knowledgeable enough or advanced enough to know how or to actually do it - the lower dantien is a safe place to store for everyone.

[lilman]

Thank you again for your reply. What Ive learned regarding small circulation has been kinda conflicting. On one hand I learned to build chi in the lower dantian till you feel the "boiling water" and it should by then already start circulating up your tailbone, then you can start practicing small circulation. On the other hand, I learned when ever you feel the warm sensation start moving to your tailbone you can start circulation. Then you just send chi to flood the gates to open them until you complete the path. Thats why I have all these questions...

To my understanding as far as storing qi in the bones, its a part of jin training for some taichi teachers, after small and grand circulation you compress the chi in to the bone marrow. start with hands, forearms, upperarms, shoulders, feet, shins, thighs, hips, spine, chest and ribs, and skull. once you can feel it compress in all the areas one at a time, you compress them all simultaniously. After a long period of practice you should feel your chi begin to vibrate. At that point you want to compress the chi in the bone marrow further so it vibrates stronger. Then it can be led anywhere in your body, and outside your body stronger, and stored in your bones on inhalation, and expanded on exhalation.

Thank you. I really do appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

[joeblast]

Do you have Dr Yang's Small Circulation book? I have the book as well as the DVD, they are both very informative and would probably answer or clear up a lot of your questions. The ancient documents that are translated in the book are priceless!

I have Mantak Chia's bone marrow nei kung book that I will get to sometime soon, but I've been doing a lot of other practices that are prerequisite.

Building and gaining sensitivity are key to these, imho

[lilman]

I do have Mantak Chia's bone marrow nei kung, Dr. Yang's Root of Chinese Qigong and Qigong The Secret of Youth (Bone Marrow and Muscle Tendon Changing Classic), All which go into some detail of the training, I also have a book on Tai Chi Chuan, meditation, and Taoist books that explains small circulation, but I do not have His book or video entitled Small Circulation yet. I guess that would be a good investment.

[joeblast]

get the embryonic breathing one first, there's lots of good prerequisites in there! Dr Yang's EB & SC books are top notch.

[yeniseri]

I have been studying Tai Chi Chuan and Qigong by myself for about 4 years learning from books (mostly Dr. Yang's) and about 4 months with a teacher, and am no where near my current potential with chi development. Mostly because of my confusion with how to do some of the qigong. The questions I have relate to wuchi and chi in general. Hopefully someone can help me out cuz my teacher will not answer these questions for me.

1. When practicing wuchi, Dr. Yangs books ussually suggest using either Daoist or Buddhist breathing techniques with coordination from the hui yin, I met a Daoist practitioner that told me when you practice wuchi you sit and do nothing, no breathing techniques, just breathe naturally. No coordination of your huiyin is necessary. Whats the correct method, if there is any?

2. And when practicing wuchi, if you feel rocking sensations from your dantian out to the rest of your body, and a slight warmth in your dantian, but not the boiling heat most books suggest, does that mean your close to the goal and almost ready for small circulation?

3. If your practice wuchi to build up chi, if you practice moving qigong or jin training before you have a full reserve and start circulating small circulation, are you waisting your time with wuchi? Can they really help each other if jin passes chi out of your body as well as with some qigong exercises? The reason I ask is some books say after qigong wait 20 to 30 minutes before going to the bathroom, or eating so chi can enter small circulation...

4. And just cuz Im curious if anyone knows, when practicing spiritual daoist qigong, is it dangerous to have OBEs (out of body experiences) before you cultivate the spiritual embryo?

It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could help me with these questions.

Taijiquan is not about qi development though it is a byproduct of training gong. Additionally OBE and spiritual embryo have no place in taijiquan since taijiquan is/was always a martial art.

To have an insight into the martial part is good though you may not like learning martial stuff but if one prefers to ignore the martial, then the gong part of training is excellent because it bridges both taijiquan and qigong.
A 'secret' (it is secret because mnay do not do it or consider it important) part of is building gong! You start with the physical through lowered stances (according to your level of conditioning), stance holding (zhanzhuang or taijizhuang) and individual posture training utilizing silk reeling principles.

It may be better to choose one discipline because if you train correctly, there is overlap within the principles of each!
If your choice of a teacher is as wise as you allude, then follow his instructions. Practice first then ask questions later!

[lilman]

Thank you for the information. I do practive Taiji as a martial art. OBE does have a lot to do with Taichi chuan, Taichi was originated by daoists as a mean of self defense and as a moving qigong system to build your chi and advance in the arts of longevity and immortality. (see any book on Taiji theory) Through your practice your chi flows ceaselessly through your body maintaining health and improving vitality. It is necessary to improve vitality and learn self defense cuz it takes many years of practice to develop "immortality". Once you build your chi to a significant level, you can start developing the spiritual embryo. Then the spiritual embryo is "born" and can exit your body (OBEs) and you should practice OBEs and let your spirit body get further and further from your body until you can stay out for days/weeks/months at a time, and travel anywhere. Then when your ready to die, you can send out your spirit and enter the realm of immortality.

[joeblast]

I read on the Foundation training board that their masters say there are 6 different kinds of qi. I know of yin and yang, and another that is quasi-magnetic, but I wasnt able to find info about the other 3.
The kunlun masters say that kunlun qi is magnetic, but I'm honestly not experienced enough to be able to differentiate

[Dvivid]

Qi simply means energy. It refers to all energy.

Energy can manifest in a variety of ways, as heat, light, magnetism...

Dr. Yang has been exploring the relationship between the ancient understanding of Qi and the modern knowledge of bioelectricity since the 1980's.

The advancement of our understanding Qi and Qigong in this new century will be closely related to the new research being done in physics, M-theory:

Excerpt of "Introduction to Superstrings and M-Theory by Michio Kaku

and in human bioelectrical science:

http://www.answers.com/topic/bioelectric

Bioelectromagnetism (sometimes equated with bioelectricity) refers to the electrical, magnetic or electromagnetic fields produced by living cells, tissues or organisms. Examples include the cell potential of cell membranes and the electric currents that flow in nerves and muscles, as a result of action potentials...

Bioelectromagnetism involves the interaction of ions. Bioelectromagnetism is sometimes difficult to understand because of the differing types of bioelectricity, such as brainwaves, myoelectricity (e.g., heart-muscle phenomena), and other related subdivisions of the same general bioelectromagnetic phenomena. One such phenomenon is a brainwave, which neurophysiology studies, where bioelectromagnetic fluctuations of voltage between parts of the cerebral cortex are detectable with an electroencephalograph. This is primarily studied in the brain by way of the electroencephalogram or "EEG."

[joeblast]

Have any of you guys seen John Chang or read The Magus of Java? Plenty of references to yin qi and yang qi there...sure, its all qi, but from a bunch of sources I've read that there are demonstrable qualitative differences. Of course, I have no direct experience, but a big part of achieving a certain level of accomplishment in Mo Pai or Lei Shen Dao is developing yang qi and condensing it in the LDT area, then combining it with yin qi to form the lower dantien (they consider the LDT to be akin to the fruit...everyone has the field, but you must plant the crop, tend to it and grow it to fruition.) A hardened 'lump' of yang qi forms in the LDT. Or is the LDT. I'm not sure which.

Of course, information on those two lineages is scarce...I'm a member of the foundation forum, but havent been on there in a while. They're really secretive about their methods, reason given that the masters do not want the full practices disseminated in part, thus watering down the system. Both of those systems seem to say that there are levels of practice that are damn near impossible to achieve without a master's transmission. I looked into the Foundation training, but it is too hardcore for my life situation; I wouldnt be able to leave home for extended periods of time or devote 4+ hours a day to training. I do manage to get 1, 2, sometimes 3 hours in, though.

[lilman]

Well from my experience your lower dantian is already present, qi does not need to harden there to experience it. Theres an exercise I learned in a book entiteld "The Way of Qigong" called the crane the deer and the turle.

1 Stand in a good qigong position, head extended from above, eyes looking int infiniti, head held up by an invisible string from baihui, tongue lightly touches palate, neck shoulders relaxed, chest slightly concave, abdomen and hips relaxed, arms relaxed, legs and knees relaxed, feet relaxed yet grounded.

2. The Crane, place hands on dantian, right over left for male, left over right for female. As you inhale, feet stay grounded, head stays in same position, move lower body as far forward as comfortable without stretching, leading from the dantian. As you exhale, mover lower body as far backwards as comfortable without stretching, leading from the dantian. Do this exercise 9 times before moving on.

3. The Deer, in same position transitioning from The Crane exercise, as you inhale, you lower body moves out the same way, only difference is as you exhale and move your body back, gently push your dantian. This resembles the way the female deer sleeps with her foot on her dantian. Deer is the chinese symbol of fertility. Repeat 9 times.

4. The Turtle. In same position transitioning from The Deer exercise, as you inhale and move forward, without any physical or muscular movement, imagine your head arms and legs going into your "turtle shell" (torso), and as you exhale and move backward, imagine your arms legs and heads stretching out as far as they can, again with no physical movement. After the 9th time, just stand and breathe, as you breathe, push down into your stomache and feel. You should feel a hard ball in your dantian.

This is a good practice for beginners to learn where to feel for when meditating, and in my opinion proves the existence of the dantian.

[joeblast]

I like the turtle one. good stuff, thanks!

re: those guys considerations of the dantien, I was merely relating...it seems to me that they refer to a different concept of the dantien than what is more widely accepted. I personally just observe and draw conclusions if the need arises...in this case, I dont have the depth of experience to say one way or another with certainty

[lilman]

Well reading more into what you just wrote about the Yang and Yin qi, it sounds to me like wei dan, external elixer. It just sounds like they use either imagination or muscular force to build qi in extremities and lead it to the dan tian, (Yang) then they use meditation (Yin) to balance out the yang. As long as I been practicing I never felt 2 completely different feelings in my dantian so this is the only explanation I could come up with. But again my experience is limited as well... The dan tian hardening part I never heard of. I do know when it gets full it gets warm, and when you do that exercise I mentioned previously it gets hard, but never heard of or experienced a permanantly hard dan tian. Crazy... Sounds like something interesting to read up on. What are your thoughts on standing on stake to learn "empty force"?

[joeblast]

As I understand, the first levels of it store yang qi in the ldt and then condense it. I'm not sure where the yin qi comes from, but their level 4 is the attainment of a fusion of the two energies.
Go on youtube and search for John Chang and you should find a vid with him doing acupuncture on this journalist that had some problem with his eyes (that he cured) - he shocks the crew with demonstrations ('touch my hand') and then tears a piece of newspaper off, crumples it, and blasts it with qi and after a few second it lights on fire.
In there Chang talks about how he does it - yang qi from here, yin qi from here, combine here, and this is how.

I just got an opportunity to go do the Foundation training, and I'm going, seminar in OR next month. Weeklong, 7 hr days. Should be cool. I'll report back on my experiences, although I'm pretty sure I will be sworn to secrecy on actual training methods.

[lilman]

Thats pretty cool. Sounds like an interesting experience. I just got the book Embryonic Breathing by Dr. Yang Jwing Ming. He goes into some detail on Yin qi and Yang, but its related to the breathing. I tried his method of Embryonic Breathing. You can feel it (the qi) WAY more thanthe method some Daoist showed me. I think I like Dr. Yang's method better. This is definately a good book for beginners to start out with for Qigong, and great to extend advanced practitioners knowledge. I had a good feeling of qi in my dantian but the practices in this book made it a lot stronger.

[joeblast]

EB is an awesome book, I've had many benefits from its practice. Picked up plenty of stuff from the DVD that I didnt with the book...also upon re-reads as well.
EB & longevity breathing gave me some of the most interesting meditative experiences I've had to date.

[lilman]

I definately agree. I have never felt the Qi expand through the Girdle Vessel before like that until I started this practice. Ive experienced skin breathing before, but nothing that strongly. I only have one concern which I either havent got to yet in the book, Or just missed or didnt understand. Its about sex and embryonic breathing. Im aware when a male ejaculates they loose about 40% of the Qi in their bodies through legs. But there are Daoist practices that can still give you the male orgasm with no loss of semen. The concern is other postings in this forum say that practice may be unsafe, and in Dr. Yang's book it is appearantly completely against sex during EB. But then in The Root of Chinese Qigong, it says it is safe for a young man to have sex oncee every 3 or 4 days with ejaculation. Should you practice 100 days of building your root with EB and become celebate for that time frame? Will it completely destroy your practice if you dont? Will it improve your practice if you practice semen retention and us dual cultivation techniques? What about the Yi Jin Jing "Sexercises"? What about after you start small circulation training? It says once you start small circulation you should have no fear of loss. I am still young and sex is an important part of my life... Can anyone on this forum assist me with my concerns? Or should I just give it up for the time being?